Episode Links
Transcript
Bryan McCartney
You’re listening to ushering death. Follow us on all good podcast apps or at usheringdeath.com.au.
Bryan McCartney
Today on ushering death, I’m joined by Kelly Playford-Veal. Hello, Kelly, how are you?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Hi, fine.
Bryan McCartney
Kelly is the co founder of the Redlands suicide bereavement group. Can you tell us a bit about that? How did that get started?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yes, so started off in 2015 in September. So my plan was to set up a support group for people who have been bereaved by suicide. Because when I had been impacted by suicide, in 95, there was nothing really around.
Kelly Playford-Veal
So it was really difficult to have conversations with people with family, with friends, and my social network, because there was so it was such a taboo subject. So I found it really frustrating that people could talk about other forms of debt, such as cancer, and, you know, car accidents and stuff like that. And I reached in a way that my mom had died by suicide, because that will give me permission to be able to talk about it.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. What do you think, makes that what do you think sort of makes the discussion of you know, people who die from suicide so taboo?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Um, I think how I think we’re historically suicide was always, from a church perspective, simple. You know, people still use the phrase committed suicide as if it’s a crime because, you know, back in the day, people were charged with attempting to take their own lives. So there has been, you know, the stigma around mental health and suicide and you know, people who take their life you know, some people hear that as being very selfish, and how can I do that to people and no, like, society is changing their views. But we’ve certainly got a long way to go.
Kelly Playford-Veal
So I think,you know, like when people are impacted by suicide, I think there is a natural affliction and there’s often guilt associated with someone taking their own life like people perhaps no, remember their last conversation with the deceased wish that could have been different sometimes, you know, if there’s long standing mental health you know, likes that can wear people down and JC if there is you know, if there’s that emotional connection and yeah, that it’s can be really complicated relationship. And people can get exhausted being in a caring role, for example, and doing their utmost to try to help someone who’s in distress and feeling like all their efforts and not not working. So and that was my that was my experience. Anyway, like, I felt like I was trying to do everything for mom, but I didn’t see any. Couldn’t see her improving. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
Had your mum had, long term mental health?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yes. So I’m not really like she was my she was a rock to our family. So when her mental health escalated, we were all surprised and quite taken aback and didn’t know really what to do because my mum was so dysfunctional and and so you know, like, She held the family all together, and then all of a sudden, you know, she’s not, she doesn’t have that capacity that she wants to do. So she was a relationship breakdown and childhood trauma surface which took us all really by surprise in terms of her revealing her childhood.
Bryan McCartney
Okay, so we met obviously through the Redland, suicide bereavement group and through standby and those sorts of things. So through your own experience, would you say that sort of what led you to that path of of creating that group?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I always felt like I had a bit of social justice within me growing up like you know, sometimes Do you hear of children gathering, you know, stray cats and dogs and all that I’d seem to collect people that needed a bit of support and, and hand them over to mum to, for her to to help them. So I remember saying a mum years ago or want to be a social worker, because you’re too soft, you wouldn’t last. And so when mum died, it made me really evaluate my whole, you know, my wife, my future and stuff like that. And so for me, it was because she died really unhappy, or wanted to die, very happy and have lived a really fulfilling life. So I thought, I’m just gonna go after my, my dream and become a social worker. And that happened last year when I graduated. A long time coming, but yeah,
Bryan McCartney
and I guess it’s been worth the wait for you, though, to really, you know, get that life experience and all of that grounding behind you to offer that to. So talk us through a bit about the journey of you know, creating that suicide bereavement group, what was that like for you?
Kelly Playford-Veal
So I was halfway through my master’s doing Gestalt, psychotherapy. And I really felt like I was in a position to be able to offer the community something. Because I remember going to a support group, saying, when I first moved to Queensland, say probably until I arrived here was 9098 1997. And so probably went around that same time. And I remember, there was a net, one lady who lost her son to suicide, and her and I attended a support group. And this poor guy, we just I asked him so many questions, and all he could say was, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t work really well. So I didn’t find that very helpful. So I, part of the plan of, of setting up a support group was that I’d be confident enough to at least talk about my own experience, but have a little bit of research and background to back me up when I was supporting other people. So, so education, and, you know, preventing suicide, and having that training, and that behind me, I really felt that I was in a position to offer something. And, yeah, and I guess, you know, initially, it was I had already known some people who had been impacted by suicide. And initially, I asked them to come along. But I put ads on my paper, and it sort of just grew. And then you know, I made contact with postvention services such as standby, I wasn’t working with standby at that time. And just started advertising, and people just kept coming. And it’s still operational today. We’ve got a new facilitator, who’s running the group. So it’s very sustainable. It’s a good group that really wants to make a difference and support each other in their journey.
Bryan McCartney
When we think about grief, and people who have obviously everyone’s grief journey is really different, regardless of passing, but I think people who experience grief as a result of suicide, there’s some real commonality in that sort of grief that they experience. Could you talk to us a little bit about what what that is like for a person?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, well, I’ve touched on it a little bit about your will is quite huge. You know, like I mentioned that people, you know, remember their last conversation with the deceased. You know, we know that suicide is never just one thing. It’s a combination of a lot of things. So there could be a relationship issue, there could be financial distress, there could be childhood trauma surfacing. That’s always complex. It’s never one thing. And so people always tend to remember their last interactions, or all the things that they have done, that they feel was their fault that perhaps contributed to someone’s death. And that’s never never the case. We want to explore what that gives us. But we don’t want to put blame on anybody because it’s not anyone’s fault when someone takes their own wine. And that was a huge thing for me because I didn’t blame myself amongst it. And I did have some family members blame me for her death and through a lot of soul searching and counselling myself, I realised I actually gave my mom a voice. And, you know, what had her in her at the time in her recovery journey of her childhood. So, really like, you know, people can be angry. And that’s, you know, absolutely fair enough. But sometimes we’ve just got to be mindful of where that anger is targeted and where that lands for other people that can be really damaging in that group. And, you know, like, sometimes, depending on the relationships, like I remember, so mom had a history of mental health for a period of two years, and many, many attempts before she did take her wife. And I remember getting the call saying, you know, she had passed. And I’m not sure. And I remember going on a cold, she’s at work and thought, in some ways, I actually felt relieved that she didn’t have to, you know, be in so much turmoil. And I’ve, I felt so guilty for feeling relief, and really ashamed of feeling that and it wasn’t until I got my own therapy and realise that that is such a normal reaction because of the complexity of the situation. So yeah. And often when I do talk to people about relief, a lot of people understand that, because often there’s quite a history of many attempts or roughshod in relationships.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, I think as well one of the challenges for people through their grief journey for losing someone to suicide is that the unknown answered questions, you know, that that reason of why you know, a person who passes from cancer or or for from a car accident, or that sort of thing, there’s an absolute reason. So you, you can, and we see it all the time, there’s these absolute reasons of why that person passed. But for someone who dies as a result of suicide, I think it’s all of those unanswered questions for family and friends and loved ones that really eats away at you. And that’s when we start creating those spaces of guilt that we tend to rest in.
Kelly Playford-Veal
Because as humans, we want to make meaning of the situation we need, you know, our brain needs to understand. So, we, you know, I often talk about, you know, people go go through a process where they will leave no stone unturned until they, you know, find some answers to some of their questions. You know. For me, I was fortunate enough to to understand the reason why Mom took her a while, but I, I found her journals when she was hospitalised they had to pack up the house. And I read them. And it gave me such an insight into what was happening for her. Whereas before, I had no understanding. And yes, I felt incredible guilt about reading it, because obviously, then I had to change our relationship. But I don’t I don’t think she understood why that changed. But it was because I actually had more understanding. But for a lot of people, there’s nothing there’s no noise. No, it’s very sudden, you know, sometimes people say, Oh, I didn’t pick up signs. Sometimes there are no signs when someone’s about to take. And it can be so abrupt that people are so shocked, that they don’t want to understand they want to understand what happened to their loved one. So it’s not uncommon, and a lot of people say our unit, sometimes we will never find the answers. Yeah. But then, when you tell someone or you know, you’ve got to stop finding the answers that can actually be a hindrance to their journey, because it’s a natural human process to understand. Yeah, of course. And yes, it may take a while for them, even if they don’t have find their own axis or find the answers to the questions. They will cut. At some point they’ll come to their own conclusions about something that could and that may differ between different people in who are also impacted by that Jeff So for example, a husband and wife might come very different conclusions about why and that’s okay. That’s okay. Based on the information and their experience. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
When a person passes from suicide or something, someone takes their own life, what is sort of the logical process that a person would go through? At that stage? What What Would somebody expect to experience?
Kelly Playford-Veal
I don’t know if people expect anything, because they often work looking at the society we don’t really know how to do. When death happens, it’s like, what do I do? What do I say? There, so their experience and their expectations is, often it’s like a form that I know what to do in the next step, you know, especially when it’s so sudden. So for example, one of the first things obviously, you know, there’s the coroner’s investigation, which a lot of people are unaware of that process. And all deaths by suicide need to be investigating. And it’s not, you know, I’ve heard families being really upset and distressed about that process, because they feel like they’re, again to blame for their debt, the debt. But people, you know, it helps when people understand when they know that this is just a very natural investigation process. And it’s just, it’s just to look at what the cause of death actually was. So, so sometimes people find going through the current system really distressing. And people get some relief wants to if they know a little bit about that place. And there’s some things that could be done a little bit better, for example, you know, when the coroner releases, you know, the coroner’s report, that just shows up out of the blue in the mail. And that could be any time, you know, six to 12 months after the death. So you can imagine people are starting to, you know, get back into their routine, you know, a little and then all of a sudden, they go the mailbox, and here’s this paper, and often people cannot read it right then and now, they need to get away, or they don’t want to show, you know, a why, for example, because of some of the content in that,
Bryan McCartney
because they certainly don’t soften anything down. It’s, you know, like, everything is it’s, it’s brutal, almost when you receive these, you know, new death certificate, new coronial report, and it, it just has the bare facts, it’s, you know, doesn’t really prepare families or, you know, it’s the last thing you prepared to see, that’s for sure.
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, and something that was interesting that I found out in my studies was that, you know, like you if someone’s connected with a service or with with anyone, like some people are asked questions about the surrounding the dead point, you know, often phones are confiscated by police or, you know, computer or laptop and all that sort of stuff. So if there’s anything in there like to save things, any, you know, a fight, for example, happened with a young person or whatever, like those messages, walked out and can add your name or, you know, sorry, Anthony investigation, so. So some of those things are actually then put in their own hole, which can be shocked to Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
You mentioned earlier, the taboo that surrounds suicide. And I guess a lot of that shame and that sort of thing that that goes in with that. What are some of the things that people can do to, I guess, remove some of that taboo?
Kelly Playford-Veal
When we’re supporting someone who’s been impacted by suicide? Yeah,
Bryan McCartney
both when we’re supporting in general, our community expectations and the way we you know, the way we talk about suicide and stuff,
Kelly Playford-Veal
well, often a lot of people want to know why outside media family and some people that sometimes it’s not appropriate to answer those questions sometimes, you know, like, for example, you know, it might be an acquaintance that needs that wants to understand why sometimes should look at it, what a benefit is them to know that information. Often people come you know, may, it may feel very interesting. As if someone’s sticky baking when they ask why. So some like So, already encourage people to not ask why. And just hold your curiosities that people who are bereaved from tend to put out some feelers to see if I can actually trust that person. So they might just share like a snippet of information, see how that lands with the person. And then if they feel that they’re, you know, that they can trust them that then I will share more. But having said that, it’s complex, because I know people who have gone through the local supermarket and have, you know, told someone at the checkout, and they don’t, there’s no close association or anything, it was just that timing, you know, that moment when perhaps someone said, how are you? You know, yeah. So, yeah, in terms of taboo, like, we need to talk about it, you know, researchers set suggesting that, you know, up to the age of 25, half of young people are going to be impacted by suicide, we need these conversations around death and dying, not not, you know, some conversations around suicide, but just general conversations about death and dying. And what brings comfort to some people are their spiritual, you know, believes. In bereavement, we often talk about signs from our loved ones, and those continuing bonds and those connections. So people love talking about, you know, often, a lot of people want to talk about, say, the names of their loved ones. And sometimes people get, can get hearing about the grief and the mourning and all that, but it’s so important for the bereaved, because each time they tell their, their story, it’s a rewiring of their brain, and it’s them understanding and coming to terms of the reality of the situation. So allow the people to talk and, and to repeat themselves over and over.
Bryan McCartney
What about in terms of language that we use when when we are talking about suicide? What things should we avoid? Or what things should we absolutely talk about?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, I guess, um, I guess, mind frame is a really fantastic resource in terms of giving some guidelines about talking about suicide. So we never want to sensationalised suicide. So we don’t want to? You know, we don’t want to say that it’s prevalent, and it’s, you know, hot spots and all that we want to keep the community safe. If we don’t want to talk about successful suicide, no death by suicide is? Yeah. And we don’t want to say a death is unsuccessful, or an attempted. So words like attempted suicide, or completed suicide. As I said before, committed suicide that’s really outdated. And often refers to the legal side of things. And it’s not it’s not a it’s not against. So the words committed? Yeah, we don’t use that. But the mind mind friend has those guidelines, which are excellent. So if we’re recording and doing media, you know, presentations and stuff like that, it’s really important for people to be aware of the language and always encouraging people to sixth when we’re talking about bereavement, so mentioning notes in contact numbers such as standby, one after Suicide Lifeline, Kids Helpline, grief link. So always when, when we’re talking about suicide, always encourage people to do and you mentioned some services.
Bryan McCartney
Through your experience professionally, in that space around suicide, has it always sort of been around the postvention sort of space or is there some because there’s a difference between postvention and prevention? Right. So when we talk about suicide, can you talk to us about the differences between that sort of postvention and prevention?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, well, research says that Post vention is after the gym after the suicide. So it was post vention works work, though, is actually suicide prevention work. So often, people, people who have been impacted by suicide are more likely at risk or taking their own lives. So by having, you know, postvention services and close attention support actually decreases the risk side, which is then recovered suicide prevention sits in, in both of those spaces, suicide prevention is looking at all the behaviours and, you know, relationships and their circumstances of what perhaps people are looking why people are perhaps engaging in self harm, or perhaps suicide, ideation or intent. And we want to prevent all that. So a lot of work is done in, in mental health to prevent.
Bryan McCartney
And so that sort of interventions, obviously, when a person is in suicidal crisis, and those sorts of things, that’s part of that, I want to talk a bit more about the risk of people who have lost a loved one to suicide. And when we talk about losing a loved one, we’re not just talking about immediate family, we’re talking about friends, people who are close to us known to us those sorts of things. So you mentioned that the risk of suicide for those people increases. Can you talk to us sort of through that?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, I guess some people from the, from a very Family Systems Approach, like if we can, if we can look at that, and then broaden that out. But for the family, like, often, people yearn for their loved one and really miss them and want to actually enjoy with them. So it’s not uncommon for people to attempt to take their own life. And because of the grief, like it’s so intense, they actually some people want to escape their own pain. So it’s not uncommon for people to feel suicidal, and perhaps want to join, whether it extends to family and friends. You know, extended family and friends, it could be that ripple effect of, you know, we don’t know what people are going through, we don’t know if they’re actually thinking about us. So when they see someone else have completed suicide, that then becomes a bit of a norm, like, doesn’t give them ideas, but it sort of can give people permission.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, it makes it sort of almost acceptable.
Kelly Playford-Veal
Absolutely. Yeah. And then lucky and look at what when Robin Williams, die. But that has such an impact on the world really, stage. People could identify with him and how he was feeling. But it also people could understand perhaps what his wife or his family were going through. So people don’t necessarily have to know that person to be impacted. As I said, you don’t know what, what circumstances or how people are in that moment. So, you know, if, if they see, you know, other people doing it, then that could, you know, get them thinking about,
Bryan McCartney
yeah, use the term before suicidal ideation. Can you talk through exactly what that is?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, so it’s not uncommon for people to have thoughts of suicide. So often, people might just have very fleeting thoughts. That’s really common, especially when people are, you know, upset about a situation or into stress, you know, often people don’t want to die, but they want to explain that moment. That’s so they might think, I don’t want to be here or, you know, am I better off dead, you know, they start having just very fleeting thoughts. And I guess when the concern for me as a professional is when people start having those fleeting thoughts that start actually planning around, you know, how they’re going to die. That becomes really serious. And when when people are at that level, that’s where We need to really look at as a community, how can we intervene? Like as a family member? How can I set up a support plan? As a practitioner, what, who cannot who from the community can are brilliant to support? You know, and people choose not to take their own life because of their relationship. We need to look at what are the protective factors, and pets could be a protective factor work can be a perfect family, that connection with God baby. That connection with nature. Just powerful to keep them here to keep them alive. So once we explore those protective factors, and look at what support and then, you know, walk alongside that person.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, what, like what is available to people who are in a suicidal crisis?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, I guess. The third, a mental health number is always available. So that’s about for people in distress, but it’s also available for parents or family members or a concerned friend, just to give them a call and and talk through what’s happening, they will then provide guidance about what the next day. So that’s usually they’re going to you if anyone is at immediate risk, even at risk, we will encourage them to ring triple zero. People can go to their GP and get a mental health care plan, I think they can get up to like 20 sessions. Now. There may be a gap fee that people need to pay. So just be mindful when they’re seeking a psychologist or social worker or medical practitioner, just to be aware of privately to be aware of the associated costs. People can access access to the emergency department if they need to. So there’s a lot of resources, there’s a lot of stuff online, like there’s the Black Dog Institute, is headspace. For young people. Sometimes there could be a bit of a wait, wait time face to face. But there’s definitely a lot of crisis numbers that people use.
Bryan McCartney
For people who may have some fear attached to reaching out for help, and those sorts of things for family of a person in crisis. What happens? What’s the process? So let’s say for example, someone is in crisis, and they call triple zero, ambulance attends what happens next? What’s the next step?
Kelly Playford-Veal
I think it really depends on on the situation like it depends on whether someone has actually attempted and, you know, perhaps we’re in the process of overdosing, so there’ll be just rushed to hospital. But if people are feeling distress, often, in se qualifying, there’s police and the ambulance and then co a mental health clinician, sometimes it can attend on the scene. And so the mental health clinician can do an assessment, sometimes the ambulance or the places code. And the situation is worked through right then and there. And no further action is taken other than looking at, okay, who in whom in their circle can be severe support. Sometimes people who are really distressed do not reach out. So it’s really important for us to have some training, I believe, to look at how we can support them. Sometimes it’s about the community reaching in for them, rather than them reaching out because it’s very distressed, that they may not even be aware in that moment of what’s about, you know, they’re busy trying to regulate themselves, let alone thinking about what up support. So it’s our job to say, Hey, I’m concerned about concern that you’re thinking of taking her own life and really asking that direct question. And if they aren’t, then look at which. Yep, we’ve sent about this.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, okay. We, then obviously, we look at different ways of supporting that person as a as a community and what are some of the things that we can do to support them that’s not intrusive, that’s obviously something that would be beneficial because not what I think might be great for someone for their mental health is not always going to be the right thing for that person. So how are we is a is it a good way? Or what is a good way to support someone in that crisis?
Kelly Playford-Veal
And I think you hit the nail on the head of what response we need, you know, like, we can never assume anything of what’s leading, so ask them. And, and don’t be surprised if you get the pushback and go, no, no, no, some of the practical things can be issued literally. So for example, you know, someone’s just been impacted by a deer, you know, some meals, for example, can be very helpful. Someone turning up with a mop, and their vacuum cleaner can be just as helpful. Often people can’t, are not functioning and do not want to be able to think about, but for some others, the house could be spotless. Yeah. Because that’s that need to be doing. Yeah. So I would always encourage people to ask, and not just assume what’s needed. Yep. And, and, you know, allow, allow the difficulties to be there, like, allow the awkwardness of, you know, a conversation to, for it to happen for it, to accept that, that visibility, to allow for those silences. And, you know, sometimes words wouldn’t be enough, but just a touch on your hand is, yeah. Be fully present with someone. Yeah,
Bryan McCartney
that that being present is such an important thing. Because you’re right, sometimes it’s just having company in silence and giving that person the space to feel what they need to feel, which is, is equally as important.
Kelly Playford-Veal
And sometimes it’s, you know, it’s perfectly okay for someone who’s in suicidal distress, and someone who’s bereaved, is simply saying, I don’t know what to do. Yeah. I want to
Bryan McCartney
say, I love that concept of reaching in. And I remember the first time that you had spoken to me about that it was before we did, one of the out of the shadows walks together. And I think it was Nikki that might have talked about it through her address on the day. But it was such a powerful concept for me to think, yeah, absolutely. Like, why wouldn’t we reach in because, you know, I would think that a lot of the time, people in crisis, they don’t want to reach out, because that’s not what crisis enables us to do, you know, crisis is not necessarily going to enable us to do that. So that idea of reaching in was so powerful for me, and it’s something that we’ve really importantly implemented through our business in the way we support our families is, through all death, we really make an active decision to reach in and see how we can support them beyond just being funeral directors,
Kelly Playford-Veal
emergency powers, walking home, laying down on crutches, and I was struggling, say to open the door to my car. You know, it’s incredible how many people are willing to jump in and my hand, so we were in distress, that shouldn’t be any different? Yeah. In my distress,
Bryan McCartney
and because, you know, suicidal crisis, and people who die from suicide that is a result of, you know, generally mental illness, which is absolutely a health issue, not not necessarily anything more, but I remember us having a conversation as well once about it being more than just a health issue, that it was a community issue as well. And I think it was something that that also really enlightened me, again, further on the idea of of that being a community thing. I know, we don’t like to talk numbers and those sorts of things. But do you think suicide is improving in Australia? Is that something that is getting better?
Kelly Playford-Veal
I like to think it is, I think we’ve got a long way to go. But genuinely, I think it is we’ve got to put in when we hear those numbers, though, we’ve got to put in context of what that actually is. So there’s a lot of deaths that go on recorded examples for car accidents. You know, how does the coroner really determine whether that was a car accident? Or if that was a suicide? So, first of all, we’re not going to always have the correct numbers. And also, look, you’ve got to look at the population as well like in terms of the population growth, you know, like, they always do the statistics on, you know, under 100,000. Last, you know, what I mean is incomes. So, but overall I like to think we are, it is improving. We’ve still got a long way to go and I think you message that our people can just walk away with things is that it’s everybody’s responsibility. So, you know, for example, the budgets, you know, can certainly uplift someone in a conversation they have with the customer for the county can certainly do that. We all imagine if we would all look after our mates, and do the reaching in and checking in, you know, for people, it can be really scary, people don’t know what to say they don’t know what to do, they’re so concerned of stuffing it up and getting it wrong. And if people are really concerned about about that, I would so encourage them to get free community training. Some of the training can be this safe talk, there’s assist training wizzley Life Force does some suicide prevention training. So people are scared about not knowing what to do or what to say. There’s some really amazing training out there that will give you one skills, but also the competence to have that conversation with someone who is in
Bryan McCartney
what about when a person does lose someone and a person has lost someone to suicide, what is the What’s the best advice that you could give to someone who was embarking on a journey of support for someone who has been impacted by suicide
Kelly Playford-Veal
sometimes family can want to, they don’t want to see their loved one distressed or upset. So they do encourage them to do certain things. Like for example, pick up the room of their loved one, ya know, and often that happens and has to happen, like sometimes it’s a rental property, people need to move out or you know, pack up their their belongings. But if you can refrain from making any major decisions about what happens to the, to the according to the very special positions, because imagine, like giving away stuff or throwing things away and then regretting that they can keep some of those things. That is a huge thing that comes up for people in the bereavement group is that they act into that. So we always encourage like, slow the process down, all the way down. If it’s if it’s bringing comfort to that person, like what I’ve heard, people talking about sleeping in their loved ones bed, and some people finding that really distressing, that can be purely very comforting for for the bereaved, they feel close to that to the loved one. So if it’s not causing any concern, if it’s not impact impacting their day to day life, then it’s okay if they engage in that. So we just encourage people just to slow down and really take the time it needs to make those decisions. Sometimes we need to set boundaries with people. And you know, sometimes people you know, maybe want to help, but it’s upsetting the bereaved. So we encourage the bereaved to have those open, gentle, honest conversation about what their needs are. People want to fix people in their grieving, grieving, the process of grieving cannot
Bryan McCartney
be fixed. Yeah, absolutely. It’s that whole process of, you know, just time is absolutely essential when it comes to grief. And I think every parent, every person’s journey is so unique and so different.
Kelly Playford-Veal
Um, so and so. And within the bereavement group, like it’s not about giving advice, it’s about sharing your experience. But often in sharing your experience it’s giving insight into if I was to share my experience, for example, it gives people insight into look at how I do things. And it may be things that they hadn’t considered for themselves, and so they might trial it like you do. And vice versa, what happens when it’s so many come other people, for example, you know, I mean, it is a learning journey as well, because you mentioned the very first Christmas for example. Yeah. That can be really complicated. It can be very awkward. Sometimes there might be a member of the family that actually want to set up a dinner plate for the deceased in memory of them. For someone else in that family that might be really distressing. You They’re often the first question of and bursaries is the new norm, isn’t it? What do we do here? And then the second year can be just as hard because they try and implement something that is more. A little bit different from the first one, they’re implemented. So they try something else. But eventually they will find what suits them. Yeah. Another big a big thing for the bereaved is sometimes people can’t attend the funerals. So we’ve seen that during COVID. And thankfully that, like a one of them was zoomed in, you know, and people were able to return, which is fantastic. And hopefully that’s here to stay. But people that maybe stayed around said, Yeah, but for whatever reason, sometimes people may not even be able to jump in, you know, link into the zoom session, or whatever, or can attend face to face. So sometimes, people might need to do their own little ritual around creating their own ceremony to honour their deceased in their own way. Yeah. Yeah. And you probably talk a lot about how people can do that is really so important.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. Kelly, it’s been so great talking with you today. I think, you know, suicide is something that we absolutely need to shine more light on and give people the space to talk about. We’ve got so many links that you’ve talked about that we’re going to pop into our episode notes for all of our listeners. Any final closing thoughts from you?
Kelly Playford-Veal
Yeah, thank you, Brian. Thank you for this privilege. And it’s been such a delight working with you and your family and your business like, yeah, I really appreciate everything you do. And Miss not being in Brisbane working alongside,
Bryan McCartney
hopefully you’ll be back at some point or if not, we might move our or we might expand up to Cannes or something. Um, so that’s cool. It’s been great talking to you, Kelly. Thanks for joining us today.
Kelly Playford-Veal
Thank you. Thanks, Brian.
Bryan McCartney
You’ve been listening to ushering death. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. Follow us on your favourite podcast app and visit us at usheringdeath.com.au