You can support Sarz Sanctuary and the Sarz Spirit Foundation by visiting the following links:
www.sarzsanctuary.com www.sarz-sanctuary.shop
Transcript
Bryan McCartney
Some listeners may find today’s content distressing. Listener discretion is advised, and this episode is not recommended focusing is under the age of 13. You’re listening to us during death. Follow us on all good podcast apps or usheringdeth.com.au.
Bryan McCartney
On Saturday, the third of June 2017. Julie and Mark Wallace’s lives changed forever when their daughter Sara Zelanek was murdered in the London Bridge and Borough Market Street terror attack, a radical terrorist attack that killed eight people and seriously injured 48 others. Eight people are murdered. Chrissy Archibald, Xavier Thomas, Sara Zelenak, James McMullen, Alexandre Pigeard, Sebastian Belanger, Kristie Bowden, and Ignacio Echeverria. The horrific scene ends in the fatal shooting in three men by London Police. Julie Wallace is the mother of Sara’s Zelenak. And in honour of Sara and driven by her Spirit, Julie and Mark founded Sarz Spirit Foundation to support and provide hope to those who’ve experienced the sudden loss of a loved one. This is their story.
Julie Wallace
Like people that I don’t know people that were on London Bridge people that worked at bear markets, people that I don’t even know I haven’t met people like a teacher in Zimbabwe. Yeah, but who teaches and talks about our sanctuary to her grade four class. Yeah, thinks of, you know, because I’ve shared the story and I am roar and vulnerable and people have connected and followed me over the four and a half. I’ve over four and a half years now. And I’m the only one I know, in Queensland that has had had a loss of a child in a terror attack in London. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m, it’s a lonely place. I’m the only person I know. I haven’t made anyone else. I know. There was a link, terrorist tech sort of thing in Sydney. I know there was that little one in Bourke Street thing Mall. But I’m not aware of anyone else. And so for us, we think that these types of things happen on TV in their pretend, you know, because we don’t have terrorist attacks.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, exactly. It’s, it’s such a different type of grief, then different what you would expect for a person who was unwell, or someone that you had that time to at least try and brace yourself that, yeah, it’s coming. But
Julie Wallace
shock. Sudden Death is very different from someone dying of cancer, or old age or an illness or something,
Bryan McCartney
and especially the violence attached to it. I know. Yeah. That itself. And from and we’re going to talk more about Sarz today. But the things that I got to know about Sarz when we were planning our service and celebration. Yeah, you couldn’t fathom it, you couldn’t fathom that she was the person that would happen to I think she wasn’t
Julie Wallace
meant to be there. Yeah, she was meant to be working. And she was an open nanny. She went on the, you know, the trip of a lifetime. And but even going back before that, so going back, she saved up, she was going to go originally to Milan. And at the last minute who opened any in Milan, that nanny that the family had had to leave and go back to New Zealand because her grandma died suddenly. So they decided because I did get someone straightaway. She was meant to be there in two weeks. They got a local girl straightaway. And they said, oh, sorry, saw the site or the positions been taken for Oh, what the hell, you know, she planned it like God did all the resume and everything was good. And they liked her because she was snow. She had snow skiing and snowboard experience. She had a one and said to an avalanche survival and snow skiing because she went across to Canada tried after school lease. And so she had had one boy, she was looking after six and they did a lot of skiing and had a ski holiday place. You know what they used to go to. So she ticked all the boxes, and then all of a sudden was changed. And then I was really happy. She was going to English speaking country, and she had a friend l just up the road from where this other AuPair family was. I was worried about her in Milan because she was young, gorgeous blonde, cause you know, not speak English. And I remember when I travelled at 23 around Europe and London and everywhere, like, you know, European man a fairly gropey Yeah, you’re a bit more coming forwards are always concerned. And I was relieved. Oh my god, thank goodness, she’s going to London because London’s you know, been in London and it’s a safe place because you think of London or you know, maybe New Zealand like in the Commonwealth. You know, you sort of have people and friends there and all that sort of stuff. So it’s all good. You know, this is much better. Yeah. But then, you know, she went there and she loved London. She was meant to be working that night and the family. The grandma said, Oh, look, she never she had two little boys she was looking after and the grandmas had never looked at the little one and the big one together. She said don’t worry, you have the night off the being good. Oh, Come on, you know, get out in the town that day night in London. And she was in this open nanny group that she loved because you want to get in touch with a European background, because her biological father was from Yugoslavia back then, which is now any of them Bernie, lucky or whatever. And she wanted to see all those European countries in experienced life as you do when you’re 21. As you do, I did and like her brother did seven months in Europe and England. And they both organised a trip together. So she was doing the au pair, Nanny thing for a few months. And then we’re meeting her at the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And we would count down every day I would text or message her mom can’t wait to see the last thing. She was 27 slips to go. Yeah. Great. So then she got the night off. And then they were looking for she was wanting to be classy and get dressed up and all that stuff. So she was looking for this classy rooftop bar, which I couldn’t find. And I went to Soho, and they went there. And then she was meeting a friend at the rugby which is close to borrow market. So they decided to go to the grind because that was close to where the rugby was. So when the rugby finished that they could meet. Yeah. So she was in the grind having meatballs and a glass of wine and all this sort of stuff. And doing you know, we’re having fun in London. And then she got a phone call to say I finished it the rugby, come out meet me. So she walked out unknown to her into a terrorist attack. Yeah. And
Julie Wallace
she was bending down happening helping the person before her that got killed and just stabbed to death from behind. Yeah. And, yeah, initially, she was. So then from then on. We didn’t know and then a friend of mine, because that was Saturday night. So that’s Sunday morning here. And I don’t normally talk, talk to her until the next night and only talk to her like five or six o’clock our time. So I wasn’t expecting to hear from her. And then a friend called me I was actually down in Canberra, because Mark was working there. I spent the night there and was flying home and she said, Have you watched the news in London? I said, Oh, no. My watch goes off. You heard from Star? I said no. Because I just had the Ariana Grande attack that had the Westminster which she was there the day before she was meant to go the Ariana Grande concert but couldn’t get the night off. Yeah. And then Oh, another thing like the three in a row? And I said no. But you know, I wasn’t concerned because you know, so I went home. And then all of a sudden that next night, the phone started ringing. And the open nanny mum rang to say, oh, sorry, I didn’t come home from from going out last night. And that’s not like it at all. And she’s always common sense. makes good choices. And I said, Well, that’s strange. So then, you know, around her no answer. Then she ran back. And then I had a call from AFP. And then I tried the called Australian Embassy. Okay. And those, those places for help. Open on the weekend, like Open Monday morning. The Yeah, so we couldn’t get anywhere. And I told Mark and he’s starting to panic. And then he rang all the hospitals where because there’s 20 People unconscious and injured from the attack. So they went out to seven different hospitals around the area. So he started ringing hospitals in London. And they he was asking you, sir, as elnec there and there was no one admitted, alive as far as Elena. And so was uh, no, because she was in the morgue. So she wasn’t a patient in the admin a no, you know? Yeah. So we still don’t know. So missing person, and in London, they have a law until then 100% sure that this person is dead. They will not tell you because I had an incident with twins and they got it wrong. And they change the law. So the police then AFP and, you know, all Family Liaison Officers over there. They knew instantly, but we didn’t. So they had to get to hear samples, and her dental records to match up and confirm all these things. And then the dental records didn’t match up. Right? Yeah. And we
Bryan McCartney
still didn’t know and how many days had passed since.
Julie Wallace
So this is two days going on. And then the AFP come around. Mark came home from work the following day. And then at midnight, I got a knock on the door from the AFP. Catherine Stokes. They said we have a body we suggest you fly. Still not 100 thought at all. Okay, so then the next morning, we had nine different news and radio stations on our front lawn. We even had the New York Times. We had channel seven Channel Nine channel 10. We had the local newspaper we had the you know, the son that
Bryan McCartney
and this is all before you’ve even been told that haven’t
Julie Wallace
been missing person. There’s seven confirmed dead the eighth one was not confirmed which was Sarah So I had I think I had 358 calls that day. Everyone rang but Saara, I actually even did a radio. Like, you know, I was talking on the radio, which I don’t even remember I was doing. Nah, who was it was a local radio station got on a rang and they wanted to do an interview with me. And they said that they would, you know, donate the airfares and all this stuff. And I don’t have any recollection of doing this at all. I didn’t sleep for three days, I was racing. And my biggest fear was that she had been kidnapped. And she was a sex life. Yeah. If it was one of those, you know, undesirable, because there’s so many, you know, terrorists and all. undesirables over that was my absolute biggest fears are no, because there was all these case scenarios if they’re hiding, you know, someone’s got her and you know, everyone, all this speculation. Yeah. So you’re hearing all this noise going on. It’s all untrue as media is, as we know, today. Yeah. So it was unbelievable. So in the end, was going to be my two sons go with us. And my youngest son was in the middle of exams in year 11. So he went across to the next door neighbor’s yard, and I’ve gotten in my exam and act normal. He just know what’s going on. Yeah. Couldn’t couldn’t even fathom what was going on at 16. And he went across into my next door neighbor’s, he went in, hidden the back of the car, and Mark took him to exam come back. And then I actually had appointment to get my hair done at Harbour day surplus in Cleveland. So they, I couldn’t leave the house and wasn’t allowed. And so they flew, they drove her into my next door neighbor’s driveway and she dumped the fence, come and cut and blow my hair at home. I have people dropping in over fences. My next door neighbor’s English. She gave me a bank account because I couldn’t go and get money. They said don’t just stay in a house don’t because it was it was like, you know, you couldn’t straight it was circus was like something on TV. You know, it wasn’t in really in the rhythms.
Bryan McCartney
And again, this is before you’re even tiny by night. Now how does that feel?
Julie Wallace
Oh, all I could always said the way that felt was when you have little children and in a shopping centre and your turn around them missing. You can’t find them for that split second. I had that feeling for three days. I could almost feel that. Oh, I was five kilos in two days. Yeah, I couldn’t eat sleep. And then because you’re so sleep deprived. And you’re so the fear, fear in that state of fight or flight fear. Place? It he can’t really describe it. It’s like being in a car accident in slow motion all the time. Yeah. But you’re in that place all the time. And that never ends. And that feeling of browning or something or something saying
Bryan McCartney
it’s such a common thing that people saying that at the height of discovering tragedy that everything slows down, the world slows down, they slow down. We hear it from people who have lost loved ones, yes. To be in that for that period of time so long. That’s tormenting, let’s
Julie Wallace
talk. So in the end, it was Mark, my youngest son and I, we did my eldest son’s going, he said, Now I’m not going to London, I have really good memories and had a mate, I’m not going there. Because mum, she’s going to be dead. I’m not going now. And I’m not going that place. Stay. Do what you know, whatever you want to do, you know, he’s older. So he decided not to go our younger son, we thought now we have to care for him. Just in case it’s real. I still had hoped that it was wrong because she was very smart, athletic, common sense. Whereas, you know, I would have made done stupid things. You know, the more it Nazzaro and so we went off we get on the plane we were had this security van we had Channel Nine channelcentral For seven following us to the airport. And we are in this fan and we had to go the secret right way to the airport the way the queen goes, you don’t go through customs. I didn’t get through customs. I just end up on the plane first. Everything happened they said only pack hand luggage. So we didn’t have to go through baggage or anything. So we ended up on the plane first without going through the normal way. And then we were flying. There were wonderful Emirates Airlines. We were flying we were about to touch down in Abu Dhabi. And then I when you get low enough when you’re texting down, you can get you know, through through so my son rang me on WhatsApp. And he said mom, the DNA results approved. Syrah is dead. I can’t tell you I honestly thought I was having a heart attack. I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t. I was like, because I was here we were in like I was was it? What is it? It’s close, you know? Business class. Yeah, we had myself and then Harrison the math behind us. And so I got on my chair and we were texting down mentally stupid. I just got out and I was just, I can’t tell you how hysterical I Because I didn’t I was just screaming, crying, delirious, absolutely in shock, and then they move the guy and I had to sit and hold on to him. What happened, Malcolm Turnbull wanted to get on the six o’clock news. So the entire world found out before us. Yeah, so we the last ones to find out that she was she was killed. And then we got off. And we were met by a place and, you know, went to a private room and they said, Yeah, blah, blah, blah. This is what’s happened. And then we went on to the next flight. And we were met by our family liaison officer in London, who looked after us. They have a family liaison system in London to look after people from terrorist attacks and things like that. It’s a very good system. So Jim Galvin looked after us for those 12 days, we’re in London, we thought we were going for three, yeah, get her and bring her home. Yeah, so I had clothes for four days. And so we go there, we had to have flowers. At Barrow markets, there was flowers, say 100 metres long, the flowers like this deep and messages. And the love and support of the English paper was was absolutely amazing. We had to start the inquest for the attack. So we had to go to court cases, we went to Scotland Yard, we make Christina deixa, in charge of the London police. We did church services we met, you know, the Australian Embassy out our people, we met all her family and friends from where she lived, the kids who looked after the parents, or the people who opened any friends. We had to do all this stuff. And we had to wait, we had to wait four days to see your body because of what happened. It took them four days to prepare her to be well enough for us to view. Yeah. So I still thought oh, you know, I still have one 1% chance that maybe also, maybe she doesn’t have a licence or passport. And they’ve got it mixed up. Now it was, it was God, it was just to see her, you know, in that band, you know, being killed in that way. And her I had to see her wounds and her fingers and toes and freckles and all of those things. And it had to say you know how proud I was of her and say goodbye and I had to hold her hand. And when I held her hand, she held on back. And the only way to describe it is like holding on to electric toothbrush, the energy housing in her hand. And from that day, she’s been with me ever since.
Bryan McCartney
I remember when we met was at Moreton Bay Girls College, we had gone to make yourself a mark there to talk through what that celebration would look like. Yeah. And I think the one thing that stuck with me and I think I even said to you at the time is and I always avoid using the word Strong. Strong is not the word that I use in these situations. But that bravery, you have this incredible sense of you just were you’re going to get this like through this in terms of how you’re going to do that. And I remember walking away from that meeting thinking, Oh, God, am I good enough for this? Like, you know, you guys have got such incredible bravery and this experience to share with people. And I remember the service being incredible. And it was a beautiful service. Well, where did that bravery come from? Do you think?
Julie Wallace
Well, in my eyes, I had to, I had to honour her and I had to do the best job I possibly could. In honour of Sarah. And that was my absolute number one priority. And I remember later on, because you get judged for everything, everything. Like if you if you don’t cry, you know, terrible. And if you cry too much, you know, it should be stopped and crying the scene and you should be in sixth grade to have grief and then whatever everyone has their opinion
Bryan McCartney
and you’re still being targeted by media at this stage. Remember the service there were media outside and politicians wanting to come? Everyone wants to politicise
Julie Wallace
Yeah, because people don’t die from a terrorist attack in London in Brisbane. Yeah. So it’s world news. It was World News so massive. And my mom’s friend or which one I when I was doing my speech, he said to my mum, which one’s the mother? She said, What do you mean? She goes, Oh, she’s not crying. So she mustn’t be the mother. You know, like, yeah, like it. I’ve had a lot of extreme, challenging experiences in my life, my whole life. And so what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger in a lot of ways and it makes you relate to a lot of people in different things like you know, all different I’ve had that or I’ve had that. Oh, yeah, I’ve done that or this. I must have, you know, yeah. Must have killed a little child. Yeah, I pretty much have experienced so many extreme diverse situations in life, but it does make you understand. And you can either take it on board and use it as a positive or you can be a victim your whole life. Yeah, you choose as your wife, you know, and
Bryan McCartney
I think from what you and Mark told me of SARS, and what people who said tributes as well as that’s exactly who she was. There was one thing that really stuck for me when I asked you mark the question about how, how do you let go of the anger, that anger of losing sighs I don’t know if you remember this, but the anger of losing cells to something so violent and so tragic and unnecessary? How? How do we not address that? And I don’t know if you remember, but you said to me, and this won’t be verbatim, but along the lines of saus wouldn’t want that she, she wouldn’t hold a grudge, it doesn’t matter who you were what you did, she wouldn’t have held a grudge about it, it would have just been okay, well, you know, get on with that sort of thing. And I think that that was the moment where I was like, I’ve, I’ve got this going to absolutely do this. Because I think you know, the way people were politicising her death from a racial thing, and from Islam thing, and all those sorts of things. And we’re talking about three men, we’re not talking about a whole group of people. We’re talking about three men that did this. And I think, you know, for you to be able to say that to me at that point. And for me to go, Hey, that’s like for you to have the bravery to say that, then it’s up to me to be able to deliver that in the right way. And I think that was one thing that made me proud is probably not the right word. But I think more privileged to be part of that, because I think you being able to do that was really such an incredible way to pay tribute to science. And it was a really authentic way to do that. But
Julie Wallace
that’s what I want, though. I will not lower myself. Hate brings on more hate. And that’s what they want. They want you to hate when when you hate someone more and then it creates another wall. And then those people are angry at that wall. So then there’s another one. Yeah, I don’t even know their names to this day. Yeah, I would not give them 1% of my energy because they did not deserve that. Absolutely. Unconditional love will always win over hate and I will not lower myself to their standards to this day.
Bryan McCartney
And I think when you participate in hate, you’re giving people power. And they don’t You’re right. Better deserve our and Sam has got such a bigger legacy. Oh, that you guys obviously are keeping going. You know, you’ve created some sanctuary and saw spirit foundation. Tell us about that.
Julie Wallace
Oh, that’s been a journey. And you know, everything will work world’s changed so much. Since Ira passed away.
Bryan McCartney
Tell us about your original vision because really beautiful. Well,
Julie Wallace
you have to okay, we did the we’ve got her home. We’d wait four days to say goodbye. We eventually got home after 12 days because I wasn’t leaving without it. Yeah, no way. And the saddest thing was she just applied before she left to be a flight attendant on Emirates. And we never flown Emirates because it was more expensive airline so we always went somewhere cheaper. And she didn’t get the job because they wanted her to have another language. But she could try again in six months. That’s what they said. And it was so sad to fly home and she’s in Emirates in a coffin on the way home that was just like heartbreaking. So we got to home we did the funeral. And then we thought what can we do we both did said that we have to honour and give her keep her legacy alive. So we thought sighs sanctuary. We went we organised to do the bike ride from London to Paris. We had we did it initially with us in spirit just for six riders. We did the AV strength, the Australian story. We did lots of different things started making candles. And so what can we do? How can we make this happen? And then we had Zurich. So then Zurich foundation is the charitable arm of Zurich foundation. Were in London. And they were doing their goodwill walk. And then we we ended up meeting up with them after the ride and they wanted to have dinner with us. They took us out for dinner. Then we found a property in the Noosa hinterland. We wanted to do a five day holistic healing programme, sleeping place for victims of traumatic grief and PTSD, all these different modalities. So they came out from Zurich viewed the property they end March Mark easemon Shakshuka Han and said yes, we can buy this property for you. Everything I’ve ever taken to the board has been approved. So we put down a $50,000 deposit on this 53 acre property and varied out then that was he came out I think it was September in 19. And then it was going to go to the board in January 2020 January or February. end of January. Anyway, then the world starts changing from a normal world to a COVID world, the new normal world, whatever that is. And part of our grants mission, we had to prove our fundraising ability. Now our biggest fundraiser was the matron Paris bike ride, which we had organised to do the same thing again, in the June we had the riders when the places we had all happening. We had our pilot programme in Byron Bay, to prove our concept with our first responders challenge, all booked in, nothing happened, everything cancelled. So we lost all of our fundraising ability, and we couldn’t get people together. So Zurich, pulled the pin, and they decided to that they would help AFL and off umpires in mental health. Instead, baby in nicer place for media and had on the back. And we’ll tackle my feelings. That was cool. Yeah, so they put the pin. So the in their goodwill, they did refund a $50,000 deposit that we put on the property, but we were got it. Cool. We had this whole plan we, you know, we bought, we sold a house. We bought a two bedroom unit for Harrison initially in the city because he was doing uni and we just had somewhere to go and put our stuff in storage went to London because we had the inquest. We had the bike ride. We had all this stuff to do in London Railway three months in 19. I spoke at the victims of terror Congress in nice and there was, you know, we were had a hectic year in our space. And then we thought, Oh, what do we do? So we were in shock for a few months. And then we thought, well hang on and the world kept changing. We’re in lockdown. And then we couldn’t do this. We couldn’t do that. And then we we couldn’t even make candles because we couldn’t get the raw ingredients because everything was on delay. I mean, there’s not one person hasn’t been affected by Absolutely, yeah. I mean funerals. Yeah. Do it online. Yeah, that’s the same. Absolutely. People need people. There’s so much evidence base in community.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. Even just that physical contact.
Julie Wallace
Yeah, give them the benefits of a hug. Yeah. You know,
Bryan McCartney
and that’s been I think the biggest thing for us is we haven’t been able to hug families. And I know it sounds ridiculous. But lucky. It’s been the biggest change for us, I think, is that that lack of? Yeah, I shouldn’t probably be a day but, you know, it makes a difference. You know, a person might be in that moment. Struggle and hug from a stranger. Yeah, but you know, genuine compassion
Julie Wallace
with with heartfelt compassion. Yeah. And you know, your experience in this space, and you’re not, you know, you’re, you know, you’ve done all this. Yeah. As a Korea. Yeah, yeah. And they need you in that. And they’re in the lowest point of their life at that time.
Bryan McCartney
What for you, you look at your situation, it was like, the most tragic experience that I’m sure you will have a festival.
Julie Wallace
Yeah. I don’t want anyone to understand when people say, oh, you know, I don’t understand. I’m really grateful, because they haven’t had the loss. Yeah, I haven’t experienced and I want anyone to do what we’ve had to do. Yeah, it’s horrible. It’s a horrible club debate.
Bryan McCartney
I can imagine. It’s horrible.
Julie Wallace
But it’s funny enough, like when, like I said, I went to the victims of terror con ggressive. Nice. And I spoke there and there was 750 victims of terror from around the world. And you instantly connect with those people. And you don’t have to say anything, because they know and understand. There’s just this knowingness of how you are and feel and you just connect and then the world sort of shut down and you don’t have that same connection with these people. It’s yeah, it’s it’s hard. And people need that. So you know, we’ve done online connections for tributes for the, you know, the day of supporting, you know, annual remembrance of terrorism day and things like that. We’re all on Zoom and online, but it’s not the same, but it’s something you know, so yeah, don’t change and now we’re currently building this digital holistic healing platform for as body mind, spirit soul. And so we can connect any holistic healer with anyone anywhere around the world online. And it’s yeah, it’s global.
Bryan McCartney
Talk to us about the concept of holistic healing. So when you talk about a holistic healer, what
Julie Wallace
are we talking about? We’re talking about what has to be evidence based. Like even this Saturday, we’ve got an equine evidence based it we’re doing a con art therapy for victims of traumatic grief workshop, or we’ve got a couple of horses in Belmont. So that’s 12 to four this Saturday. We anything that’s evidence based, like, if you want to see you like we want to also have a psychologist and all that sort of stuff is available as well, but there’s like tapping therapy. Yeah, there’s art therapy. There’s all different breathwork Yeah, if you do breath work, if you do five minutes of breath work, you can feel so much better, but people don’t know that.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. Which is crazy because oxygen is Why Fox? Right? Yes,
Julie Wallace
but also breathing through your nose, not your mouth and you go down deep into your stomach and go yoga and meditation and mindfulness. And all there’s so many different modalities. And kinesiology, Reiki, people don’t know what’s available. And it’s also cost effective. Like, if you like, when Sarah died, I went to doctors, and they want to put me on antidepressants, right away, or go and see a counsellor. Well, if that doesn’t work, then that’s it, you know?
Bryan McCartney
And what are they doing? They’re really other than just deferring those feelings. We’re just putting a bandaid on it. And
Julie Wallace
it’s all there. It doesn’t fix it. So then you get into alcohol or you break up with your husband because you’re not processing or he’s processing better than you. So you feel like you’re missing out or he’s not there for you because you’re in a different space at a different time. It’s, it’s your own personal journey. Grief, there’s no right or wrong. And people need to know that. Yeah. And it’s,
Bryan McCartney
I’m glad you say that because you’re exactly right. Because all of our journey through grief is so unique and so different. They can’t be right or wrong. And I think people really fixate on the timeframe of oh, I should feel better by now. But that
Julie Wallace
wasn’t it used to be like five stages of grief. Yeah. Three, second, third or fourth? And then people give you one and a half, two years maximum. Yeah. And then you have to be over it. Yeah. That
Bryan McCartney
we let people grieve relationships longer. Well, yeah. As a society, we do. We appreciate when a person has ended a 15 year marriage. And five, six years later, they’re still no great about it. Well, that’s okay. If separated, but when it comes to death, we put these unrealistic expectations on people and you should feel better. I think one of the best things I ever saw of a reputation and representation of what grief looked like was a spiral is that we think it’s this linear line, but it’s not it’s just this mess. And we go
Julie Wallace
through like one of those mazes you go,
Bryan McCartney
yeah, and then it swaps around the other way.
Julie Wallace
And thing is here in Australia, we it is a taboo subject is grief. Yeah, people get really uncomfortable talking about that. So we need to educate others on what to do and what to know what not to do and what to do, because people can say the worst thing. Yeah,
Bryan McCartney
that’s a great, so bad, right, lead into my question. People, we hear it all the time as funeral directors, we hear people thinking that they’re saying the right thing. They’re being great and supportive. What was that one thing that you wish people wouldn’t have said to you in?
Julie Wallace
Are you over it now?
Bryan McCartney
How people actually say, yeah,
Julie Wallace
yeah, I remember I was it was about six weeks later, because I, to me, I couldn’t go there. The thought of Sarah being stabbed to death by a terrorist in London was so dark. It was so dark, it was a really lonely place. Because there’s no one I could talk to to share this because no one has experienced this. So I kept as busy as I could. I worked as much as I could and did as many things as I could. And I remember I went back to work as fast as I could a few weeks later, I think maybe a month later. And then I remember a person I won’t say who they tapped me on the back and they said, are you all good now? Are you over it? I could I was speechless. I actually felt like my door drawer was on the ground. I had to pick up my jaw and put it back in my mouth. And if I wish I would have punched him in the face. But that’s no good. I was so flabbergasted by that response. I was speechless. Yeah, yeah, that was that was the best one. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
What do you wish people would have said? What do you think would have helped?
Julie Wallace
Even like even saying there’s no words? My door is always open. I’d be happy to sit in your face with you. Yeah. Can I do something for you? Yeah, you know, like people brought over meals or things like that really helpful. Really, really helpful in those early days because you can’t even like you have days you can’t even get your shoes and socks on you can’t you can’t actually do anything can will be how they will look after yourself. Yeah, and when someone brings over food or I had a lawn mowing person come and then I had someone come do two hours of cleaning just trying to one of the worst things was keeping up with the flowers. Yeah. Which made make you have the idea of candles? Yeah, at one stage. I think I had 36 bunches of flowers and was so overwhelming because I die flowers they do yeah three or four days they’re watering so keeping up the watering and getting rid of them and who has 36 verses are very like him I had I had three or something and he got all these flowers dying you got to put them in the beetle give them to someone or they’re all dying and eating water and then they drop all the flowers on the ground so constantly cleaning up the mess so I’ve found at that time I flowers really awful. I do like them again now. Yeah, at that space. flowers represent a death. Yeah, yeah, they went with death. Yeah. Which that’s why I got into the candles because you can light your candle inside candle you light it and you can have that quiet time to be present and reflect on your past loved one. So and that doesn’t make any missed. Yeah. And you can just have that little bit of being present time and reflect and it makes you have a ritual. Yeah. So I thought no, candles are better. So that’s what gave me the idea of the candles.
Bryan McCartney
I think that symbol is a more burning a candle that yeah, wanting a burning of a legacy. Yeah. It’s such a powerful thing
Julie Wallace
it is. And you know, Sarah, like I said, Sarah has like been with me ever since. And if anyone follows me on the spirit foundation, I have the most amazing old photos and what she can turn the she can turn the radio on, and her you know, favourite song comes up and I don’t turn the radio on, you know, things move lights, like, I have orbs that no one else has. And I feel her with me. I meditate. I do yoga, Nidra 20 minute meditation every day. And every day, she holds my hand so tightly that I have to open it I just to make sure that someone hasn’t come into the room. It’s like a handshake. It’s so powerful. Yeah. So I talk openly about my spiritual journey. And I wasn’t spiritual before. I but then again, I hadn’t lost my daughter either. Yeah, exactly. I had no reason. Yeah. And I’ve seen a few mediums since she died. I have let’s see, like one a year or something. And it’s so so bizarre because the first one I saw, she said to bring Sarah’s favourite grade top that she used to always wear. And in my head, sorry, guys, I’ve Mom, don’t worry about bringing any money. She’s not going to charge you. Like that wasn’t what I was going. Yeah, I just want to hear what she said. And because I’ve been told I’m like, Okay, I’m the conduit between heaven and earth. So Sarah uses me as a conduit to look after here. And she’s up there on the show. And I really think she is Yeah, because Papes I’m a people feel her presence inside stuff. And you feel her around and think of her all the time. And so the first thing she said, Oh my god, she put it arms and everything. And she said all this stuff. And she goes, Look, I can’t charge and I just started laughing. Because like, I already knew I was really funny and the staff she comes out with and not only that, other friends, because the ripple effect when a young person dies, it affects me and then her friends and their friends, family and neighbours keeps going on when it’s someone very young. And it’s you know, it’s so funny that, you know, people will say, like, they feel sorrow and do stuff and all the different things that that have happened from this and talking about your loved one in that spiritual sense allows others to share their experiences.
Bryan McCartney
Because again, another taboo, right? Hey, you
Julie Wallace
can’t say that. Yeah, I don’t care. I feel and as you should, ah, you know, and I
Bryan McCartney
think like, again, being in the funeral space. For us, I we see some of those really interesting signs and signals that people wouldn’t expect before. What’s been the really sort of has it been something really comforting come from any of the mediums that you’ve seen?
Julie Wallace
Oh, it won’t guess. But yes, yeah, that also, she was not she died instantly. I will say that she is happy where she is. She could live a million lives where she is now and she’s in her best, best form in a spiritual, unseen world. And she said, Don’t worry, Mum, when, when your time comes, you’ve got a lot of work to do. when your time comes, I’ll be there to welcome you with open arms. So that makes me feel happy that, you know, I have no fear of death. Yeah, when my time’s up, I’ll be more than happy to go. So that that brings me comfort, but feeling her presence around me brings me a lot of comfort, and just sharing those signs from the unseen world with others. Like it’s not just like a butterfly or a bird or a coin or a fair that there’s more than that. Like I’ll be making a decision on this digital platform or something to do with what we’re doing with our spirit Foundation. And I’ll say Star Can you show me a sign that make sure you write so I just did a dog walk around my block. I saw for Sarah numberplates in one block. Style si r s. There was Sarah. And there was Sarah with a four. Yeah. And then there was something that I thought it’s one block. Okay, I’m on the right track. Yeah, just things like that. And then, you know, be thinking about and then I remember one time I put my foot down on the road and Mark want to walk a different ways did not have to work this way. Because we was working this summer I said, I’m getting really irate. I have to walk this other side of the road and he just thinks oh my god, why? He just goes with it because he knows, you know. And I looked down and right next to my foot. I say 1111 Every day. Look down next my thought there’s a number 11 card right next to my foot now. In the pack of cards we go 10 Jack, Queen, King, Ace, there’s no 11 No 11 Yeah, well then I said Ever. Okay, you know that so if you open up your, your vision he can he can if you’re open to it, you will receive. Yeah. And it does bring you peace if you are open to it like I have, you know, dragonflies and butterflies and just just things happen even. And when I’m with people in that space who are in the same space, it raises my vibration. So I get even more, you know, and even like Christmas Eve does my two sons and Mark and I were having a drink with my son on his break because he had to work Christmas Eve. And it was two glasses and this was it maximised on the just on Eagle Street pier, and one glass move to the other glass. And then Scott says, Do you see that? Yes. I like to happen. Yeah, cheers. I’m here with you. Yeah. And often where we celebrate her birthday. She had her 21st at George’s Paragon illustrate. And so we all that’s whenever we’re there. There’s always a spare seat. But we don’t ask for it. Yeah, so there’s six seats instead of five. So she’s there. But we don’t ask for the seat. Yeah, she has one to five. So she makes it happen. Just just things like that. Which is really nice.
Bryan McCartney
It is nice. That stuff does bring comfort, right? It does. Nothing. Yeah, that’s right. What’s the good of nothing?
Julie Wallace
Yeah, you can just be depressed, lonely and miserable person, you know, recluse like most parents and and I can’t go back like they get on they go into this place. And then was the 80% of marriages split up after loss of child horrible. Yeah. Horribly high. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
And when you think it’s the time where people should really be coming together, but the pressure and the stress, the lack liability? Yeah, the blame. Yeah,
Julie Wallace
I should have could have would have I should have known this. And how they died is really? Yeah, but I was saying why. I really like this new new Ford. My, my grief is personal to me as my fingerprint. Yeah. Wow. That’s, and I just think that explains it. Yeah. You know, for people that don’t have a knowingness, understanding. It’s
Bryan McCartney
an incredible so yeah, rreef is great. It’s my fingerprint.
Julie Wallace
Yes. That is personal to me as my fingerprint. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
How what if you were to sit across from a person in your situation from a parent who lost a child to an act of terror? What would you say? What advice would you give them?
Julie Wallace
I would say don’t listen to anyone else. I say I would say it’s your journey. Do what feels good for your soul. Yeah, yeah. What feels good to you then do that? Because people give you Oh, you should all this stuff. And like, have they walked in your shoes? Yeah. Have you been made for like one day? Do you know what’s happening?
Bryan McCartney
I don’t about you as an hour.
Julie Wallace
Yeah, do what feels good for you. It’s your personal grief journey. Yes. Yeah. Because no one can you know, unless they’re in your shoes, I don’t know how you feel?
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. I want our listeners to know how they can support the south spirit foundation in our sanctuary. Tell us how we can Oh,
Julie Wallace
okay. Well, yes, we’re we’re building our digital platform. So we would like that, we’re going to have a soft launch at the end of the month. So we’re, we’re doing our first part of our digital platform out our wireframes done and work doing the community part. So we’re going to get 50 People who are in that space to connect and we want them to trial it because we want their input equipped before we do the whole thing. It’s much easier to do it in stages and get it right, rather than fix that and then have to change it. Yeah. And there’s nothing like our digital platform. So it’s, it’s like a compass. And it’s body, mind, spirit soul. And it shows you how much time you’re spending in each space. So we’re like the travel agent, you’re going on your journey, and we can guide you and navigate you through your grief pathway. And so that’s what we’re going to do first. And so of course we need money because you know, the government have spent I would spend on the job and things like that. Yes, we tick every box of funding but there is no funding available. Okay, so where can people don’t know to start spirit foundation? Yep, also even buying a candle. So we have sanctuary candles online and at 20 Iga stores in Queensland, we also can sell them overseas into state we start with with we can sell them anywhere. So if you go on to SARS hyphen sanctuary dot shop, we have 18 different ones in the body mind spirit soul range. And then we have we have 14 different scents that all soil organic, locally. raw ingredients are all come from here so the money stays here and Mark and I personally make them right so the profits from the candles is building our platform
Bryan McCartney
awesome. And that size. So SAR Zed, as I
Julie Wallace
said it’s the sofa shop shop. Is SAR hyphen sanctuary dock shop but if you go to sad spirit foundation it’s linked to the shop anyway you can see everything perfect or just messaged me and like we make them in Cleveland but we live in in the city in the valley and I also delivered them all up and down the coast all the IGA stores from Cleveland to the sunny coast. There’s 20 Iga is Jones and CO have them and the seasons IGA is have them and also the rose whites groups and there’s a little one in Karina. That’s just a little independent one. Ritchie’s I think it is. Yeah, so they’re all around but if you want to, we just need to message me if you’re in a different place, or just work on on this. It’s free postage for two candles anyway.
Bryan McCartney
Great. We’re gonna pop some a links in our episode don’ts for people to sell sanctuary and to sell spirit foundation for you. Where people can donate as well which is fantastic. Yeah, it’s so good talking to you a lot. So good to see you.
Julie Wallace
What’s the love and kindness to you, Bryan, thank
Bryan McCartney
you and to you for your time you take care. Julie Wallace found strength in tragedy where most people would have struggled to continue getting out of bed each day. When you talk to joy. You can’t help but feel a sense of immense grief and loss. Yet at the same time she exudes incredible courage and bravery that inspirational doesn’t even begin to describe. It is that bravery that led her and mark to create a brilliant foundation that not only keeps Sara’s legacy shining brightly, but also extends the experience they’ve shared with their family to help others impacted by traumatic loss. You can support sad spirit foundation and sand sanctuary by visiting sans sanctuary.com. Or you can visit sans hyphen sanctuary dot shop to purchase one of the beautiful tribute candles. Thank you for tuning in. I’m Bryan McCartney and this is ushering death. Don’t forget to like and subscribe, follow us on your favourite podcast app and visit us at usheringdeath.com.au