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Transcript
Bryan McCartney
You’re listening to ushering death. Follow us on all good podcast apps or usheringdeath.com.au.
Tammy Bowdern
People always look at me as if I’m strange, but right from a very young age, I love cemeteries, and especially the old ones, because they tell a story. And there’s a particular monument at Stanthorpe cemetery. And you can go along and around the whole monument, and you can go, oh, that’s the daughter, oh, my god, she died and he lost a baby. And they just tell a story. And there’s another grave there that’s got a bronze plaque on the end of it. And it said, in memory of our son who died on the death ship in World War Two, and I’m like, What’s a dead ship? Yeah. So googling in the middle of a cemetery.
Bryan McCartney
Technology!
when during World War Two, when the Japanese camps will overrun, they put prisoners of war on ships and just anchor them
Bryan McCartney
and just leave them to die? Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think you can learn a lot from them, cemeteries that is.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. So how did that love of cemeteries come in to Tammy becoming a funeral professional?
No, it’s really not. I can’t explain it.
Bryan McCartney
What did you do before being a funeral director?
Oh, gosh, I’ve been a barmaid. I’ve been a counsellor for Jenny. Craig, you wouldn’t think so. I have worked for Weight Watchers when I was younger, so more secretarial sort of work customer service II type stuff. Yeah. And then got into the bar work as a young person, which was great. Yeah, really loved it.
Bryan McCartney
And then so you begin your funeral director Korea with a big name not to be named today. Yeah.
It was just strange. I was going through the paper. I was working for Meals on Wheels at the time for as a paid driver. And I saw this ad for funeral assistant and I’m like, I don’t need experience. I’ve always loved cemeteries. This is awesome. rocked up to the into the into different coloured shoes, because I was nervous when I ran down the stairs to get in the car. I’ve just grabbed two shoes off the shoe rack, drove there with no shoes on Got there and went, Oh my god. Different heights, the whole thing. So I sat there thinking please don’t notice. Yeah, and anyway, got the job. And it just sort of went from there was a funeral director with that company for 12 months. But having two little kids being on call 24 hours a day, every third week, I had a bit of a health issue and it just got a little bit too much for me. And I just said to my then husband, look, I can’t do this anymore. And talking to a lady who worked for that company in after hours. She’s simple. Why don’t you become a celebrant, and back then 21 years ago, there were literally four funeral celebrants in Brisbane, Robin Ryder, Robin rider, Michael Crawford, Roger furious, and Sandra Lynch. Yeah. Wow. And that was it. Our times have changed. Yeah. So my very first funeral. I’m like, right. There’ll be three songs that we this that were eulogy got to the family. They said, No, we don’t want a eulogy. And I went, Okay, well, what about, you know, prayer at pump night? That music night. And I got back in the character. I don’t know what to do. So I went home, and I called rod and I said, What do I do? And he said, Well, what are they want? They just want it short, sweet, simple. And I went, Okay, so I put it together. I timed it. It went for seven minutes. And I rang the funeral director, and I said, I’m so sorry. Because he said, I’ll give you one chance. And this was my one chance. And at the end of it, the family came up and said, That’s exactly what we wanted. Thank you. So that was my first lesson. If someone says, now we just want short and sweet. What’s that? Yeah, 10 minutes is 30 minutes. It’s 40 minutes.
Bryan McCartney
And because people have different perception, right on how long funeral should be what it should include. And I think especially 20 years ago, I
was still playing cassette tapes. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
Some funeral directors still play contest. Goodness. And then so you make this entry into being a celebrant, the first one, you short and sweet. Seven minutes. Yeah. What where does it go from there?
It just kept building. There was a lot of footwork involved. Especially because funeral celebrants was something new. A lot of funeral directors were like, I don’t understand it. Yeah. Everything was still very religious based, you know, families felt that they had to have a minister or priest. It had to be religious service. So back then, if you wanted a photo presentation, we had to outsource to a media company. They’d literally bring the old projector and a pull down screen. And that was what they wanted. And it was so weird to even answer. It was like you want to do much. And then they got real flesh and they’d bring in a big plasma TV. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it’s great now Now that it’s evolved into that, because people, there’s a lot more technology, I will never pretend to understand it. But there is a lot of technology and people have got confidence kids coming through young 20 year olds, 18 year olds have got that confidence and they want to be involved. And I think that that’s an avenue that they can do that. Yeah,
Bryan McCartney
I think we’ve seen a lot, especially in the last two years or so with COVID. Like, even the popularity of live streaming. That was next to never. Two years ago, now. We have 95%, funeral services that are live streamed, and we have, you know, multiple people that that log in to watch it. It’s crazy. I think it’s good, you know, like, it lets people come in from all over. But
I think it’s good. I think it’s the one good thing to come out of COVID for this industry. And I got the opportunity to be on the other side of live streaming last year, my mother in law’s brother died down in Victoria. And she said, I don’t know how to do this streaming thing. And I said, Look, I’ve got the day off. How about a come over? We’ll get it up on your TV, I was quite proud of myself. And I got to experience it from that side. And you know, she was crying and tissues and but it was such a beautiful feeling. You were there. It wasn’t recorded, and I’ll send you a recording of a year to actually say her family there was really comforting.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah, that’s great. So how long so tell me about the career in celebrancy. So you sort of do that for a peer because I know you’ve had a couple of other bits and pieces in between it. So tell us a bit about the journey, the death professional journey,
okay. When my life has changed, and I’ve needed a regular income, I go back to funeral directing. Because celebrant work is very intermittent. Yeah. And if you don’t put money aside for tax and super and holidays, it’s rainy day, rainy days. Yeah, you can come and be done, done. And I’ve sort of gone back to funeral directing. And then when my life’s got better, I’ve gone back to what I love is the celebrancy. Yeah, and the last time I was full time, anywhere in the funeral industry. I then married my now husband, I sound like a serial bride, a second husband.
Bryan McCartney
He’s also a professional.
He said, let’s go back to what you love. Yeah, you’ve got me now. You don’t have to worry about the finite financial side of it. And I’ve gone okay. Yeah. So I’ve been back now since 2014 2015. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
Awesome. Let’s talk about your career as a funeral director. And I really want to explore your understandings, your definitions, your your perception of what grief is for us as human beings.
Yeah. Grief. I think a good funeral director and a good celebrant, within the first five minutes, you have to be able to ascertain how much of making come through. Do I just go in, ask the questions, get the answers. Do I just sit back and be really quiet? Or do we laugh? You know, and you’ve got to be able to do that. Because matching? The celebrant up with the family is essential. Yeah, it really is. And sometimes I’ve been, hey, Tammy on my third phone call. And I’m like, awesome. And it’s just worked out. So that’s how it’s meant to be. Yeah. It’s hard not to take it personally. Yeah. Especially if it’s a very tragic situation, there may be anger, and it will get directed at you. And you’ve just got to say, Okay, I’ve said this 1000 times before I haven’t had this reaction. It’s not personal. It’s just so different for everybody. Every situation.
Bryan McCartney
I think as people, we we want to look for someone to be the cause of our hurt. Yeah, so when someone dies, yeah, who do we blame? Yeah, and we can’t blame the person because that’s just not right. But someone has to be responsible. And as funeral professionals, celebrants and funeral directors we do we become the face of death for that fear.
Yeah. And we’re asking the question, you know, as a celebrant, you know, if dad was a nice person, and you’re saying, Well, tell me about that. And why Yeah, we don’t have to tell you anything about him. And you do actually, if you want me to conduct the service, I have to know the good, the bad, the ugly. Yeah. Because there’s nothing worse than misrepresenting the person that you’re saying goodbye to. Yeah. And often side of families. Look, I need to know everything. Because if I get up and start sprouting warm and fuzzies, and mom or dad wasn’t like that. You’re gonna look at me and go, Who are you talking about? Yeah, exactly. And I haven’t done my job.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. What’s it all people? Yeah, but we were planning, warts and all. Tell me about how you manage your own grief. So when you’re sitting with a family, and I know I’ve worked with you on a number of services over a range of people, from young people to old people in Those moments of tragedy where you can’t I know myself I’ve struggled to fathom sometimes how this person could possibly be dead? Yeah, how could they be dead? It’s not fair. Like, yeah. How do you reconcile that?
Um, look, I say that in my services, it’s not fair. And it’s not a cry. Yeah, they’ve been some funeral directors that won’t use me because I’ve got upset at a service before a young person or something. It’s quite tragic. But I can’t sit there and look at a young husband and two little kids, and not be upset. Because the day I don’t, it’s the day I should leave.
Bryan McCartney
I could not agree with you more, I think it for you to have that connection with the family that you physically feel their emotional pain, like, why why wouldn’t you want your celebrant to do that? What an incredible service you’ve given to the family.
And some people say, but it’s not your grief. Yeah, well, now I’m not grieving for the person that’s passed away. I’m connecting with the people that love that person. And you can’t help but have that empathy. And, and look, I’ll get up there. And I think of all these wonderful things to say, yeah. And then I can feel myself getting choked up. And I’m like, You’re not gonna be able to say it, swallow. So I stand on my own foot. Draw and sort of get a bit of pain to get through it. Yeah. And one particular family, I’d looked after a couple of times, and his wife had passed this time, and said something really wonderful. I wanted to say to him, and I started to say it, and I, I couldn’t talk I thought I’m gonna sound like Minnie Mouse. And he looked at me and he said, It’s all right, love. And I’m like, But though it just lovely and I understood and they loved each other. Yeah, you know,
Bryan McCartney
Tammy, I remember meeting you as a teenager when I was a teenager. And you and my mom, Leanne had started working in the funeral industry together. And I think you have this incredible energy, and it’s something that I have loved always sharing with you, but that energy and I think our families who get the opportunity to have you, as a celebrant, also get to share in that. How do you keep that energy up?
Um, I think you have to process your emotions, like sometimes I’ve gone home to my husband, and I’ve just gone. That was hard. Yeah. You know, and because he’s in the industry as well. He gets it. Yeah. So we quite often sort of bounce off each other or tell me about your day. Sometimes I go home angry. And he just lets me go wah. And sometimes a cry. Yeah, if you keep it in, I learnt that lesson very early. When I first started as a celebrant, I would say yes to everything. Yes. I’ll do Sunday. Yes, I’ll do this. Yes. And I had a nervous breakdown. Yeah. And so I now know the signs that my body gives me to go. You need to take a week off. Yeah. But you have to process it. You can’t keep it in?
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. Yeah. Let’s talk about your body. Mm hmm. You obviously you’ve had other experiences with grief, specifically around cancer diagnosis. Can you tell us that story?
Yep. In 2014. I married my second husband, Paul, who is just my life.
Bryan McCartney
I’m credible guy, everyone.
We got married in May 2014. In July, I had some pains around my left side and went to the doctor and she said, Look, I don’t know what it is. We’ll do a scan, we’ll do this and I’m gay. And it came back that I had a bowel infection. And she said, But there’s something else. And I’m like, Yeah, but she said there’s a cyst on your right ovary about the size of a grapefruit tiny little. Okay. And she said, I want to book you in for another one in three or four months time. I said, Okay. Well, in that time, it had grown to the size of a grapefruit. Wow. So I had that removed in November 2014 2015. I went back for a another surgery, which was a really big one. It was called a debulking surgery. So they cut me from about my sternum, all the way down to my pubic line took out a full hysterectomy. And before the surgery, the nurse said, look, there’s a really rare cancer. It’s only about 5% of all ovarian cancers. Don’t worry about it. And in my head, I’m like, I know my luck.
Bryan McCartney
You’ve always
So fair enough. The next day when I wake up, the doctor says oh, yeah, look, we found some cells and it’s clear so ovarian cancer and online.
Bryan McCartney
So for anyone who doesn’t know what a clear cell cancer is, what what is that?
It’s quite a rare cancers so they don’t know how to treat it. And the lifespan is about five years if you’re lucky from diagnosis, but with two Six Month rounds of chemo daily month, daily radiation for a month. It has stopped in its tracks. I’ve had a tumour about the size of a golf ball sitting on my sacroiliac joint. And I didn’t know I had one of those. I had to google that too. So that’s like the shock absorber between your hip and your spine. So it hasn’t grown since 2015. So my oncologist is like, I don’t know why. We’re happy. Okay, so I actually insisted on a third round of chemo and she said it won’t do any good. If it’s not spreading. Yeah. So um, yes. So the whole chemo the first one lost all my hair. I thought I’d be okay with that. But I wasn’t. When it started coming out. I look like some crazed hillbilly with the decapitated doll under my arm as awful as tufts of hair. So I got a friend of mine to shave it off. And I’m like, Yeah, this is great. Let’s have champagne. And it was awful. Yeah, it was just such a shock. I didn’t realise how much of our density is our hair? Yeah, it’s crazy. Like It’ll grow back. So it grew back like Michael Jackson. Yeah, it was a full fro. And I just said to this rod, again, used to be a hairdresser. And I said, Can you just like chemically Relax, it’s terrible. And he did that. And I was happy with it. But when I had the real full fro was up at the martyr Cancer Centre. And this elderly lady said, I said, how your hair came back? And I said, Yeah. And she said to her daughter, oh, God, if my comes, my hair comes back like that. Shoot me. And I’m like, I can’t wait to be old and actually.
Bryan McCartney
Oh, look at your filter left. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. So you’re still struggling with it. I still have a lot of pain every day. I’m on really strong. Opiates to get through the day. If I’ve had a busy week, the beauty of being a celebrant is I can just say I’ll come sorry, I can’t do that, that job that day. So I need, I need to have a day off and just rest my body. Most of the time I push through it. You know me, I’m not going to curl up in a corner and eyes me and you just get on with it. Not to say I don’t have my doomsday days where I’m in bed, I’m going to die. I’m not going to see grandkids. And then I get over it. And I move on.
Bryan McCartney
So you’re diagnosed with with this clear cell cancer. And for all prognosis, you basically told us a terminal diagnosis. What does that feel like for you?
When before I had the second lot of chemo? I said to my oncologist, look, I need to know a number. Yeah. And she said, I don’t like doing that. I said I’ve got things I need to do. And she said if it doesn’t work, you’ve got six to 12 months. Yeah. And I just went, Okay. And I got back in the car and went six to 12 months. Yeah. You just go cold. Your whole body goes cold. And I said to my friend, don’t tell my husband. And she looked at me and we are you know, I don’t keep secrets. Yes, because I said no, you can’t tell my husband. So anyway, on the drive home, I thought I’ve got to tell him it’s not fair to him. Told him told my parents, my mum just broke down and said no, it’s too soon. No. so fortunate. I’m still here.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. This is six, six. Yeah, yeah. Anyway,
so um, yeah. Nobody knows why. But the oncologist seems to think the radiation is what stopped it. Okay. progressing.
Bryan McCartney
At a pole. Take it when you go home and you tell no new husband?
Yeah. Yeah. He just said to me, which at the time I thought was very unfair. He just said, I don’t want to live if you’re not here. Okay. And I said to him, you’ve got a son. You’ve got your parents. Don’t say that. Sounds quite angry. And I’ve kind of felt you don’t get to say that. Yeah, you know, it’s the one time I thought no, this is about me. Yeah. So I was a little bit angry with him for a while. got over it. He’s entitled to feel like that. Yeah. You know, I don’t know how I’d feel if he came home and said that to me. I’ve got people that say I pray for you. And I’m, I’m not an overly religious person. But if that’s what they feel they need to do and if that brings them comfort. Yeah, go ahead.
Bryan McCartney
How do you sort of as you go through your treatment, and that sort of stuff that in itself, obviously is, you know, traumatic, and yet to deal with? How do you sort of come through the other side and still be you Tammy? Yeah, that’s effervescent, and bubbly, and always generally upbeat.
Yeah. I always live by the motto. If you can do something about it, do it if you can’t move on. I can’t do anything about this. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
Did your cancer diagnosis Changing the way you looked at life.
Oh god, yes. In really corny ways,
Bryan McCartney
we like corny. I will say to
set a traffic light slightly I stopped and I looked up and I thought, Gosh, that skies blue. Yeah. And oh my god, the grass is good that roads, so little things that I would never pay attention to started to mean a lot. You know some of the crematoriums is you know, I’ve got beautiful roses, and I’ll quite often just stop and literally smell the roses. Yeah. Whereas I wouldn’t have bothered before. I’ve lost a few friends. That’s okay. They’re not meant to be on this journey with me. I’ve got friends and family that would call themselves Team Tammy. They raised money for Paul and I to go away for our first wedding anniversary. Yeah. They’ve just been such a constant support. Yeah. You know, so, yeah, that’s my motto. What
Bryan McCartney
do you think it took that for you to sort of, I guess appreciate the small things in your life? Do you think it’s just because we don’t give ourselves the permission, or I
think so. And I think we’ve just we go, we’ve got to go from A to B, we’ve got to do this. We’ve got to do that. For that person we’ve got you don’t slow down. And you need to just take a step back sometimes, and really appreciate what’s in front of you and what’s around you and the people that are around you.
Bryan McCartney
Now, you’re not only celebrating a funeral professional, and a wife, but you’re a mother as well had had the kids sort of take the new,
my kids are funny. My daughter is not a monster demonstrative person. She won’t cuddle. She won’t. You know, my son on the other hands like a little koala. He always has been. He was living with me at the time I was going through chemo. So he saw me sick every morning, curled up on the lounge on a Friday afternoon in pain. And he just would always say what is there anything I can do? Mom, what do you need? A daughter would she tell her boyfriend how she feels but she wouldn’t tell me. And she’s the type of person that um, for Mother’s Day, she bought me this beautiful mother daughter book. But instead of going on mom, I bought this. She just kind of threw it on the table or something. And she said Don’t cry. Yeah. So I did cry. Yeah, so she’s a bit sort of shut off. She protects herself that way. I think they’re more stoic. Yeah. When she’s had a few drinks, she’ll tell you how she feels.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. How do you think it changed their perception on life and on things that were important in law?
I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I’d really hoped Stein. My son when he left school started as a diesel mechanic, apprenticeship apprentice, and he didn’t like it. It was just a job. And he said, I really want to direct movies. I want to learn how to do that. not simple. Do it. Do it. You know, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So he did that. He’s worked on a couple of shows. Now. He’s not working at the moment. He just finished on the show. And I’ve made him promise that when he gets the Academy Award, he’s taking his
Bryan McCartney
red cast with grey hair now.
Yes, you can introduce me to Jason Momoa. My third husband?
Bryan McCartney
Is that the the what do they call it? The card? You’re allowed you pass?
Yeah. So yeah, so I’m really proud. And my daughter’s working in emergency at the PA She’s amazing. She’s got that personality, though, because they get some tough cases come through. And Casey has the ability to go, I told you to sit. Yeah. And people just,
Bryan McCartney
I imagine that stoicism would really be a strength.
So they both love what you’re doing. It took me to the age of 30. To actually get into what I love doing.
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. Now you’re also an incredible artist, and we have some of your art hanging in our office when and tell us a bit about that journey. So you’re and you’re an indigenous indigenous artist. So have you always identified as being indigenous? Was that something you came into later in life? Yeah,
we didn’t know about it. Because my grandmother where the indigenous comes from. She was actually the result of her mother having an affair with an indigenous man. So it was very taboo. Very don’t talk about it. But the man who brought my grandmother are treated her beautifully. Like she was designed daughter. So I was sort of found out. Gosh, we always suspected there was always like talk in a small town that was in Mary Barra. And then yeah, it was just sort of, yeah, this is how your great grandfather was and blah, blah, blah. And all I had was the name Yeah. And through the beauty of Facebook. I hopped on to a page called the Bundjalung people, which is the area that my great grandfather’s from, and said look, this is the only photo I have. This is the name I have And within 2025 minutes, I had this post going, that’s my great grandfather. And wow. And he put me in contact with his granddaughter who lives down at Tweed. And yeah, I’ve picked up from there, she treats me like family. It’s beautiful. I’ve always been a creative person. And the indigenous art actually started with my daughter ringing and saying, Hey, Mom, can you do some, you know, indigenous art for Liam, and I went, Oh, her boyfriend, then I went, Yeah, no worries, which I have a habit of doing. And I get off the phone and go do that. So I just had a look at a few, you know, images and stuff. And the first couple of pieces I did were replicas of someone else’s, but I didn’t sign them because it’s not Yeah, I just couldn’t do that. And then from there, just develop my own style. And yes, and I’m very proud to have my art in one of your offices. Do, I’ve had to limit myself to two donations a year? Because I was just giving away stuff all the time. But yeah, it’s just also it balances the celebrant workout. Because I just put everything outside of my head. And I’m concentrating literally on dots. Yeah, sometimes. And yeah, and it brings joy to people. And that’s, that’s what I love
Bryan McCartney
that you’re an award winning artist as well. Tell us about the award. Yeah.
One always sort of give something ago. Yeah. You know, the first show, it was the Eco, indigenous, and I got first prize from there. And I was just like, Oh, my God, so exciting. And you weren’t allowed to take photos. But we snuck in and someone took a photo of me next to my painting. And then I entered the Stanthorpe prize, which is every two years. And that’s worldwide. So I got accepted into that one. And so they had two and a half 1000 entries, and 258 Guardians, so I was really, really happy with. And the painting was of little turtles coming out of their shell going into the water. And the elderly gentleman that bought it. His wife had died from clear cell, ovarian cancer, he rang me and said, I bought your painting. And he said the last on her cry. Okay, the last trip he had with his wife was up to Lady Elliot Island to see the turtles.
Bryan McCartney
Wow. Those moments of divinity right that we oh my gosh, I think we’re privileged as funeral professionals and as artists and those things to experience those. Yeah. Have you had other things like there that serendipitous, sort of, you’re always
still really good friends. He’s a lovely, lovely elderly madman, Lindsey. Yeah, I think just because sometimes I’ll do a painting and you know, the ones I hate are the ones people.
Bryan McCartney
Were pretty critical. So
I think so. Yeah. So you entered the exhibition a couple of times last year, got first and second, and got back into the Stanthorpe. Show last year as well. So I just love sharing it. And most of my ordinate most all of my paintings, whether it’s canvas, water bottles, handbags, we’ll always have a daughter teal, if it’s not a predominant colour, there’ll be one dot, and that’s for the ovarian cancer.
Bryan McCartney
Have you got a website with your artwork or
a Facebook page, the Facebook, it’s pronounced gummy, that it’s G A M phi, art designs on Facebook. And the gummy is the Bundjalung word for grandmother, which is where I get my indigenous side from. And I wanted to honour her. And her name was Gladys, Miriam. So the G and the M. are also in the name
Bryan McCartney
will pop a link in our episode notes for people so they can have a look at your artwork. And you do have a range of things available for people to buy
as well. Not at the moment because I’ve been doing the commission work. So that’s taken up a bit of time,
Bryan McCartney
no pressure, then replenish that store. That’d be correct.
I did have an order. Two weeks out of Christmas. And a lady said can you do 24 water bottles and have it? No, I just couldn’t I didn’t have the time. Yeah. So I’d love it to be a bit more of a child and call it a job though. I’d like to be doing more of it. Yeah. Okay. So um, yes, I know. It’s just something that brings me a lot of joy. And from a trip overseas I had couple of years ago. There’s so much out there. You know, and I just encourage people to get out there and do it. Yeah. You know, it’s what’s the thing you live to work work to live? Yeah, there’s a huge difference in that. Yeah,
Bryan McCartney
definitely. I want to before we sort of finish I want to talk a bit more about some grief. And I think what I’m, I want to really underscore And is what advice would you give to people who are? Let’s start with someone who has had a cancer diagnosis? What would you say to someone in that space?
To the people around that person? I would say just give them space. Yeah. be directed by them. If they want to be left alone, leave them alone. Just say, Okay, I understand. I’m here if you need me, let that person process it the way they need to some people will get angry. I went out and had two bottles champagne, just fine. Because actually, the reason why I have found out was I had a lady from ovarian cancer research ring me and said, had the biopsy and all that sort of stuff. And she rang me and said, We’d love you to take part in a survey that goes for two years. And I said before, she said, I Varian cancer. And I said, but I haven’t got that. And she said, we only call people who have that. And we’ve been given your name and contact details. So the doctor has no homework. The doctor had not even told me what I had. That’s how I found out. Oh, my God, I’m so sorry for this lady. She’s like, I’m so sorry. And I’m just like,
Bryan McCartney
wow. Yeah, I bet that wasn’t the best day in her career.
I just said, look, it’s okay. Yeah, you know, I’ll contact my doctor. So there was a bit I was a bit angry about that. That they put her in that position. And they hadn’t told me.
Bryan McCartney
That’s crazy.
Yeah. So you just give that person time and space. If they want to talk about it. Just let them talk and shut up. Yeah. Listen, yeah. Family members look that a few of my friends said, You’ve got to try this. And you’ve got to try that you’ve got to do this. And you’ve got to, and I don’t like being told what to do. Normally anyway. But you just look, thank you very much for that. I’ll get take the information, and I’ll have a look at it. Knowing full well that I was not going to do an alkaline diet or vinegar diet or anything like that. Yeah. I put my trust in the medical profession. And yeah, just let them get me to the point where I am. But yeah, the grief side of it. We all grieve in different ways, you know, my daughter’s way was to be quiet. My son’s way was to hug me. And my husband’s way was, you know, he cried more than I did a lot of the time, and I just let him do it.
Bryan McCartney
What would you say your relationship with death is like,
um, sometimes I really look forward to it, because I’ve lost so many beautiful people. And as much as I’d miss the people that are here, I want to see my grandmother, again, I want to see all these other people. But I’d be sad that I couldn’t. Although I’d probably try and find a way to come back. Yeah, it’s a lot more relaxed than it used to be. I don’t have a fear of it. My, my sister just doesn’t want to know anything about it. I said to my dad, I said, you need to write down what you want. Very big message to anyone write down what you want. And she says a funeral wishes? Oh, yes. Yeah. And she said, I don’t want to talk about it. We’re not talking about this. We just left it at that. Yeah. Yeah. What do
Bryan McCartney
you think the fear of death comes from for people?
I think you feel anything that you don’t know something about? This, they’re probably scared to lose that person. They don’t know what their life’s going to be like without that person. I think there’s a lot of so many myths. I mean, even when I was a funeral director back at the beginning of 2014. Are you going to put two people in at once you’re going to take the handles, you’re going to do this? Excuse me, you’re going to reuse the coffin. So there’s all of that old? And probably things that have happened in the past? Yeah, that way back in the past?
Bryan McCartney
Absolutely. And some of the things I think you would know yourself, you know, you get that look from people that you’re at a barbecue or a party and I go, what do you do for a living? I’m a funeral director. And it’s like the either Oh, that’s really interesting. Or that. Yucky? What?
Yes, I actually have one lady. She’s quite a, a toffee lady, I suppose very well to do well to do. And I was on transfers at the time, which saw if you got called out ever time to go and you know, pick up a person from a nursing home or at home, and I’d had a cold out. So I went and changed and I went and got, you know, did what I had to do and came back and she said, This is Tammy, she’s a funeral director. And I just the way she looked at me and said it and I just put my hand on her shoulder. And I said, Yeah, I’ve actually just gone and picked someone up bound. She kind of looked at my hand To date person, and I’m just I don’t I don’t get people like that for starters. But I think there needs to be education around it.
Bryan McCartney
Because no one is good enough. It was too good to Deaf deaf come for us all. Regardless,
there’s no such thing as a beautiful death. Yeah. Yeah. I had a friend recently say that one of her family members, you know, put the makeup in the hair and the good dress and saying, you know, I’m going to kill myself. And and she said to her, you do realise it won’t be a beautiful death. And she said, What do you mean? There will be an autopsy?
Bryan McCartney
Yeah. That’s pretty dreadful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, and I think that some of the misconceptions people have is that you just go in what you’re doing that they forget, you know how bodily bodily functions that happen after death mean that things get soiled and dirty and messy? And yeah, yeah. That’s Did you ever think to yourself that you would be a funeral director in that environment?
No, I never the funeral industry was never something as much as I love cemeteries. I never thought of being a funeral director. It was just so happened. It was in the paper. And I went from there.
Bryan McCartney
Because it is it can be really confronting, for people think, I guess people think we have this, you know, we just plan an event and we plan a funeral and we play some music. And that’s it. And it’s done. But they they don’t realise all the back of house stuff. What was the thing you sort of struggled most
with? Oh my God asking.
Bryan McCartney
I think I know the answer. But
when I first started, I still do have a real aversion to pooping, and vomiting. So if I’d gone to do a transfer, and I take her I have a whiff of it in the room, I’d be looking for a bean because I’ve heard throw up. Yeah, I need to get I know where I need to go. And I’d be in the car with your mother going to a hospital or something. And I’d have myself so worked up at the time I got there. I was like, before I even walked in. But it’s funny. I think we’ve all got something we just can’t do. We do. Yeah, I worked with a very seasoned funeral director owner 33 years in the industry, but she couldn’t do maggots. Yeah. So I think we all got something. Yeah.
Bryan McCartney
That’s gonna be an eye opening word for a lot of people. And that’s not a disrespectful thing that when we talk about, you know, poop and vomit, and it’s not that we’re being disrespectful, it is really just your bodily reaction. Yeah, and we do we see maggots and a whole range of things. And maybe if anyone wants to know more about that, we’ll have another chance. What would be your last piece of advice to anyone in in terms of death neck, anyone at all? What would you what would be your pearls of wisdom?
I think as I said before, definitely tell your family what you want. Tell them what you want. I know I sat across from families fighting mom like yellow roses. She liked red roses. No, she didn’t. Yes, she did. Write down what you want. Because then it is about you.
Bryan McCartney
Turns out she like lilies.
Exactly. Don’t be afraid to have that conversation. He needs to happen. It’s part it’s part of the cycle. And don’t be afraid of it. You know, it can be a really beautiful thing. And I quite often say You know, this is a sad day. But he says he can’t laugh. You know,
Bryan McCartney
can be lovely talking to you today.
Thank you for being with us. Most welcome. Thank you.
Bryan McCartney Tammy is someone that I’ve known for more than 20 years. She’s someone that will always show you a full heart even in her darkest moments. Tammy’s relationship and career in the death industry has taken her on an incredible journey that has brought comfort to so many families and has helped pay tribute to people through life celebrations and funeral services that will stick in the hearts and minds of people all across the world. Thank you for joining us. I’m Bryan McCartney and this is uttering death. You’ve been listening to ushering death. Don’t forget to like and subscribe follow us on your favourite podcast app and visit us at usheringdeath.com.au